Buford T - 79 Ford Crew Cab Powerstroke Swap

[zerobalance]

Holy crap you been busy!

What do you move all this stuff with?
Marketplace?

I buy a ton of super duty trucks for my car lot, sometimes 3 or 4 a week. Everyone knows we have them so it's pretty easy to offload stuff. I did sell the 6.4s on marketplace and they were gone immediately.

What concerns did you have with the '23 truck?

General build quality. The two post covid trucks I have owned had all kinds of little stuff, like dash resetting at random, weird electrical gremlins, etc. The general fit and finish is really lacking also in my opinion. I have a clean 04 super duty and it just feels overall like a better built truck. The 10 speed was already starting to do some funky stuff, it would shift into 7th gear at like 25 mph, then do big bang down shift, it occasionally wouldn't upshift, just stuff that wasn't confidence inspiring in a new truck with 20k miles. I just wasn't prepared to own it out of warranty with the unknowns and also really being hamstringed on fixing it myself. I had bought it right, so after a year and 25k, I only lost about 6k. I used to buy new trucks every 2-3 years, but I guess I'm just over that.

 

[KDXSR5]

Gotcha. I have several alumiduties and F150s ('17-'23) in my work fleet and wanted to see what you were seeing with yours.

 

[zerobalance]

Gotcha. I have several alumiduties and F150s ('17-'23) in my work fleet and wanted to see what you were seeing with yours.

My 19 was pretty solid with the only issue in 40k miles being a failed radio ( just after warranty ended, natch). My 22 f150 was pretty crap as far as electrical stuff and panel alignment, and the 23 F250 was better but sill had gremlins.

 

[zerobalance]

Things are still happening in the background on this thing. We are supposed to have rain all next week, so I might get out of farm work and house work.

Last fall I bought out an estate of 7 cars, one of them was a 85 F250 that they told me just to take for scrap, as it was in the woods and basically rusted in half. However, it had a pretty slick set of wheels that look sorta period correct for the dentside, and they were 17's so they would clear super duty brakes. I had to get adapters, but whatever, I doubt this truck will be loaded down like my other ones and I'll keep an eye on them.

This chassis has 4"? I think lift springs up front, I haven't measured the block, but it looks like they added 4". It sits about the same height as my 03 with 4" lift. I figured a 37" tire would fit well, and help keep the 6bt in a happy rpm range. I went shopping for 37's in E rating and about had a stroke. I have a connection that can supposedly get me an employee price set of Grabber X3, but not until next January. Against my better judgement, I picked up these Kanati Mud Hog. They have fair reviews, typical of a cheap tire. If they suck, I'll replace them with the grabbers next year. They ended up being under $1000 shipped to my door, and I had some rebates to get about $75 off that. The pattern reminds me of OG Goodyear MT/R which was one of my favorite all around tire.

I was looking at flywheel and clutch stuff, and figured out that it would take a cummins flywheel, machined for a ZF6 pilot, and a 7.3 clutch. I was recommended to Kentucky Clutch, so I called them up, told him what I was building and how much power (not much), $750 and 4 days later and a clutch was delivered by UPS. They machined the flywheel and installed the zf6 pilot bearing, all hardware, ready to go. Good dudes there.

My 8 year old has been into wrenching a lot recently, so he helped me pull the cab off my Zf6 donor truck.

Unrelated to this, but setting up stuff for yet another eventual project, the engine donor for my Foxbody was delivered yesterday too. Complete disaster unloading it, I told them to load it backwards at the end of the trailer, instead it was on the front of a wedge trailer. Pushed the poor toolcat too far and blew the seals on the tilt cylinder, then got in a rush to get off the road with it and forgot I had chained the forks up to stop it leaking and bent the shit out of the fork guard. A state trooper actually stopped because he thought the mustang had hit the car hauler, then told us to get the hell off the road.Trying to not let my ADHD get the best of me and stay focused on the dentside.

 

[zerobalance]

Popped out the blown turbo, no coolant having 6.4 and sold it sunday for $1800, I paid $2100 for the whole truck and got $400 out of the tailgate and rear bumper, so free ZF6 and a bunch other parts left.

If it rains as forcasted, I can take a break from pool building and get the ZF6 and Cummins married and into the 09 chassis this week. The 37's I ordered showed up, and honestly I dig them. Hopefully they will balance out ok.

Another thing I've been working on: I hate cable throttles, DBW is so much more reliable and easier nowadays. I especially didn't want to mess with running a cable to a TPS to run the VP44 electronically anyhow. Just seems over complex. Working with another cummins super duty swapper, this is the solution. He deserves credit for 99.9%, I just provided some extra motivation and pinouts, etc for throttle pedals. This box takes the input from a super duty pedal and makes it talk to the VP44. He also designed in provisions for cruise, high idle, etc. Even better, it's all open source.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

That pedal converter box is fuckin awesome. Where does one find one of those?

 

[zerobalance]

That pedal converter box is fuckin awesome. Where does one find one of those?

It's open source, developed by a guy named Josh. Basically have to build your own. It's untested still, but he is wicked smart with this stuff.

Here's a link to his Github:

GitHub - jlaustill/fummins-data

Contribute to jlaustill/fummins-data development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[CarterKraft]

It's open source, developed by a guy named Josh. Basically have to build your own. It's untested still, but he is wicked smart with this stuff.

Here's a link to his Github:

GitHub - jlaustill/fummins-data

Contribute to jlaustill/fummins-data development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Anyone else not a fucking clue how Github works?
I can never make heads or tails of that shit

 

[rattle_snake]

You just click on the file you want, it opens.

Command line GIT is another story.

 

[CarterKraft]

You just click on the file you want, it opens.

Command line GIT is another story.

But if you stumbled on to that with out this forum posts explanation would I have any wtf the project/files are for?

 

[zerobalance]

But if you stumbled on to that with out this forum posts explanation would I have any wtf the project/files are for?

Some have descriptions you can search. A lot of the time its just a good place to point people to for the purpose of collaboration on open source stuff.

 

[CarterKraft]

Some have descriptions you can search. A lot of the time its just a good place to point people to for the purpose of collaboration on open source stuff.

Sorry for the hi-jack, I am pretty saavy on most matters of the internet but I very seldom learn anything from the Git's I find.
I suppose if I understood coding it might make more sense.
It would seem helpful to have some pix and explanation of the project in those listings.

 

[zerobalance]

Plodding away. Trying to set everything up for some big progress this weekend hopefully.

On wednesday, I ran over to my brother's and used his tire machine to mount up the 37's. I brought them home not seated to add the balance beads I had delivered form amazon, and decided to drive home a truck I just bought and he had hauled to his shop. It almost made it, about 5 miles from home it just shut off. My wife came and rescued me off a pretty busy interchange, and we drug it to a parking lot. I think the alternator is junk maybe, I tossed in some fresh batteries and drove it home, the whole thing needs gone through, but when you buy a $1500 diesel truck out of the auction, this shit happens I guess.

The tires made it safely home, and I tossed in 8oz of beads and hit 'em with the homemade cheetah, which is scary as shit.

Tossed them on the 09 chassis and powerwashed the grime off, this frame is cleaner than my 2019 was when I traded it in.

I dug the cummins out of my lean to, and got it in the shop. The cherry picker is the only thing I have here to move it. My mini excavator is out matched. I also prepped up the engine mounts. I think as of now, my plan is to mount the engine, clean it up in the chassis, and then add the transmission. Mounted in the frame is the easiest way for me to move it around with what I have here.

I also ordered a FASS for it. I decided to buy the one for the 24v and make it work. Also, summit had it on sale, and i had a coupon, so got about $90 off. I went ahead and picked up a sump kit as well.

Running out now for hopefully a big score off marketplace. Then I'll attempt to get the engine swung into place this afternoon.

 

[CarterKraft]

I tried to find a replacement motor for my sons but didn't have much luck, the motor is a very generic unit though.
Any idea how you are gonna run it on 24v?

Edit: I are 24v is 24 VALVE not 24 volts....

 

[zerobalance]

I tried to find a replacement motor for my sons but didn't have much luck, the motor is a very generic unit though.
Any idea how you are gonna run it on 24v?

I'll just plumb it to the sump, the rest is 24v fittings. There are replacement motors on ebay for the fass

Biiiigggggg score today. On a dentside FB group, there was a guy selling a bed, and he casually mentioned he had new bedsides for it. I hit him up as he was only a little over an hour away, and he agreed to sell both bedsides, a new tailgate, with all the hardware, and the taillights/side markers for $700. I hauled ass up there this morning and snagged them. Prob a little over 2k worth of stuff new, plus shipping it. Pretty stoked to mark this off my budget sheet for this thing.

 

[zerobalance]

Annnd the Cummins has landed. My 7 year old and I got a few hours of work in yesterday afternoon. We figured out the orientation of the motor mount kit, found what I think are the correct bolts, and flopped it in. He learned a valuable lesson about leverage right off the bat.

We pulled the front tires off the get the frame down low enough to slide the engine in. It actually went in there super easy, the mount kit uses the Ford lower mounts, which in my opinion are some of the best designed I've run across. It took very little pry bar work to drop it right down.

Success....

Mothers day today, so no truck work, I at least came came out early and cleaned up some of our mess. Next step is to strip off the engine, and roll the mess outside to clean it up and get some paint on it. Then it will be transmission time, and hope that some of the 40 driveshafts I have laying around will work with this combo. The way the engine is sitting now makes it look like there is a ton of room up front for radiator, intercooler, and AC condenser, which I need to start thinking about.

Fits in there damn good..so much more room than a V configuration engine, especially when it comes to plumbing boost and exhaust.

 

[72Pstroke]

If you are going to run the AC compressor in the stock location, and if you are going to run the lower coolant hose between it and the frame, now would be a good time to notch the right frame rail for more room. It was a tight fit on mine, and I notched it when I had the engine back out.

 

[Projectjunkie]

What adaptor are you running for the zf6? I have a similar build on deck. I'm leaning towards Wildhorse

 

[zerobalance]

If you are going to run the AC compressor in the stock location, and if you are going to run the lower coolant hose between it and the frame, now would be a good time to notch the right frame rail for more room. It was a tight fit on mine, and I notched it when I had the engine back out.

I have a different accessory bracket for cummins to super duty that hopefully will solve that, using the super duty AC compressor. That's my next thing to figure out, I know nothing about aftermarket AC setups, but this truck will need AC.

What adaptor are you running for the zf6? I have a similar build on deck. I'm leaning towards Wildhorse

I bought everything from a small machine shop guy named Mike Fuchs. It was $1200 shipped for the adapter, mounts, 6.4 fan adapter, accessory adapter. Very nicely machined part and he is super knowledgeable about parts. I found him on facebook and highly recommend his parts.

 

[Burns]

I have a different accessory bracket for cummins to super duty that hopefully will solve that, using the super duty AC compressor. That's my next thing to figure out, I know nothing about aftermarket AC setups, but this truck will need AC.

I bought everything from a small machine shop guy named Mike Fuchs. It was $1200 shipped for the adapter, mounts, 6.4 fan adapter, accessory adapter. Very nicely machined part and he is super knowledgeable about parts. I found him on facebook and highly recommend his parts.

I bought DCS plate(aluminum) years ago, and while I havent had any issues with it, if I was to do it again, Id go with WildHorse.

 

[zerobalance]

With the engine sitting somewhat securely, I pulled off a bunch of parts, and soaked it with oven cleaner, then blew all the loose junk off with a power washer.

I'm not going for perfect, just presentable. I bought a pint of this stuff, hopefully its good for $35.....and slopped it on to clean things up a bit.

Onto the adapter and flywheel. The Fuchs adapter is a nice piece for the money in my opinion. I know there are lots of options out there, and I'm sure they all work great. I'm happy with this part, and also with my interactions with Mike, he's been very helpful.

The flywheel supplied by Kentucky Clutch. I think it's for a G56 application? also a photo of the bolt bag just so I can remember.

Now is where I'm needing to double check before proceeding. The adapter kit is made for a Luk LFW300 Cummins flywheel, which, based on photos is flat on the back, along with a spacer that goes between the flywheel and crank. This flywheel has a stepped back, so I installed it without spacer. I need to track down a spec for the dimension of mounting surface to flywheel surface. Currently It's 2.5", no idea if that's correct.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The critical measurement for bolting up would be bellhousing bolt surface to pilot bearing, compared to the dept of the trans input shaft against the bellhousing.

Clutch just needs to clear under the bellhousing, until you're talking about clutch fork/pilot bearing stuff.

 

[zerobalance]

The critical measurement for bolting up would be bellhousing bolt surface to pilot bearing, compared to the dept of the trans input shaft against the bellhousing.

Clutch just needs to clear under the bellhousing, until you're talking about clutch fork/pilot bearing stuff.

Yup, both are what my concerns are. Depth of pilot bushing to trans shaft, and the throwout bearing clearance. The other consideration is the starter engagement depth.

Ford spec for the face of the flywheel is 1.9"-2.1". I started measuring out pilot clearance, since obviously this isn't a ford flywheel, and this is what I came up with. It has .020ish tolerance between the pilot and the start of the splines. I say ish because I'm just measuring the tolerance with some china digital calipers, so there is a margin of error. The splines are also tapered, so that increases pretty rapidly. The pilot bushing has a flange that stands about a hundred thou proud, that I can take down a bit if needed. The last thing I want is to put pressure forcing the input shaft back, or crank forward, so I may just bolt it up with no clutch and rotate the engine to see if there is any evidence of interference.

I bolted the starter up, and it's damn near perfect, so fingers crossed this is all good. I also plan to bolt the clutch up and measure to make sure the arm and throwout bearing depth is ok.

This is probably all overkill, but if I've learned anything building cars, it's that stupid little details like this will screw you over.

 

[zerobalance]

Another early morning with a bit more done, it's finally not raining here, so I have to crank out as much outside work during the day as I can before it rains again.

I pulled the flywheel back off and used blue loctite to install the adapter bolts. The original cast Cummins adapter has a torque spec of 57ftlbs, so that's what I set them at.

Some more loctite on the flywheel bolts and torqued them to 101ftlbs (the best spec I could find for cummins flywheel), and on with the disc.

The flywheel had a set of hardware, and Kentucky Clutch gave a separate set. I decided on the set that was included in the flywheel, as I'm not a fan of split washers, and figured the serrated flange style would lock better.

Pressure plate on and torqued to 37ftlbs. I kinda guessed based on fastener, and specs for ford and dodge plates.

Flew the transmission into the equation, and installed a new throwout bearing.

I used a cummins factory tool to properly angle the engine to slip it all together.

It all slid together way easier than I expected. Literally fell into place. I need to Source shorter bellhousing bolts, the oem ford ones are way too long.

I'm not sure where the crossmember will work out. I need to compare the crossmember from the 6 speed super duty and see where it lands.

Same deal with driveshafts. I have a pile of driveshafts, the front is too short and rear is too long. Hopefully there is enough adjustments to the mounts to use an OEM part, but I'm guessing I'll need at least one custom. I'll probably go to a one piece rear shaft.

That's enough for this morning....