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Rust Bucket 1st Gen Taco build thread

thezentree

thezentree

Active member
Joined
Jul 21, 2023
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6633
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36
I started a build thread on IFS offroad but that place is pretty dead, and I’ve got questions that need answering so here we go:

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2000, supercharged 3RZ, 5spd, some kinda Marlin dual transfer case setup with (supposedly) 4.7 gears in the rear case, narrowed wagoneer D44 on an old trail gear 3 link kit with totally roached Walker Evans 2.0 coilovers, stock rear axle on TG leaf packs with a FROR full float kit, 4.88s, and ARBs.

It had lots of rust in the frame, so I cut it in half:

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And built a 2x4 .120 tube frame:

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Today it’s on its own weight for the first time in like 5 months:



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Questions begin:

I am trying to locate the shackle hangers, so I started with the factory 1335mm horizontal distance from spring hanger to shackle hanger. With the rear wheels off the ground I get this:
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And this with no jackstands:


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So I moved the shackle hangers forward ~6” so the shackles were at 3-4 degrees from vertical with the wheels in the air, but that resulted in this with just the weight of the bare frame on the rear axle:


IMG_5383.jpeg


Same springs as before, same length shackles.

The spring hangers are at the same fwd-aft position, but are just shy of 2” higher than factory because of the shorter tube section height. Moving the forward spring eye down 2” is doable but will be a shitload of work. Are longer shackles a viable option?
 
Put it on that middle line you have drawn. I used the equation from the old site for shackle placement, and it looked like your second pic, so I just kept moving it until it looked right and ended up with a 45* shackle angle.
 
Slander said:
Put it on that middle line you have drawn. I used the equation from the old site for shackle placement, and it looked like your second pic, so I just kept moving it until it looked right and ended up with a 45* shackle angle.
Click to expand...
I did try that just a minute ago. It'll still invert the shackle with the wheels in the air, and give me like a 30° or smaller shackle angle with just a couple hundred pounds thrown on the frame (half a sheet of OSB and four very bald and dry rotted 37s on steel wheels). I think with the bed, fuel tank, and anything in the bed the shackles would be just about flat.

What's an acceptable angle for the shackle to be with the wheels in the air? I might play with it some tomorrow and move it like 1/4" increments and see what that gets me, but having the shackle invert doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
 
Your first placement looked pretty close to me. Are those factory springs? Why wouldn't you go with factory specs? It will settle more too with actual weight on the bed and once the springs break in a little. depends on what the rest of the plans for this build are.
 
rattlewagon said:
Your first placement looked pretty close to me. Are those factory springs? Why wouldn't you go with factory specs? It will settle more too with actual weight on the bed and once the springs break in a little. depends on what the rest of the plans for this build are.
Click to expand...

That was the factory horizontal distance between front and rear hangers, and I think you're probably right about it being close. They're trail gear springs lift springs for a Tacoma, so not OEM but definitely Tacoma springs. I'm going to tack the shackle hangers in the "factory" location and see how it all sits with the bed on and fuel tank hung this weekend. I think I got it in my head that the shackle shouldn't EVER go past vertical, so having it inline with the spring like that made me nervous.
 
These pics are kind of out of order since I painted after I test for the bed, but…

Got the forward bed mounts made and tacked in place (and then painted after I fit checked the bed)

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Which allowed me to fit check the bed:


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With the bed on, half full fuel tank hung, and 300lbs of junk tossed in the bed, the shackle angle was only about 75 degrees at the factory location, so I pushed them forward about two inches and am getting around 55 degrees with no bed or fuel tank and my 180lbs hanging off the rear crossmember. I’ve got some buddies coming over after work tomorrow to toss the bed back on and see what that gets me. Here’s where it is with the bare frame now:


IMG_5449.jpeg


Also started a very custom cover plate for the rear case shift levers, since the previous owner had just shoved a bunch of shop rags in the center console and sent it with a gaping hole in the floor :shaking:

Still waiting on some clip nuts so I can screw it down.

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Don’t over think the shackle angle. I’ve see builders go for a huge angle and then find out there’s not enough aft movement for the spring to actually flatten…
 
I’m trying not to, just annoying having to guess at it until I can get help to get the bed on. As long as it’s reasonably close tomorrow I’m probably going to call it good enough and move on with life. It’s a shitbox rock crawler, after all.
 
As bad as I want to, the front end needs help too. The coilovers are totally shot and the upper link is like 6” longer than the lowers, so the front pinion is basically pointing at the oil pan.

Also I need to buy new wheels and tires.

So, maybe next year haha.
 
Weak:flipoff2:

It's Harlan, cut 6" out of the upper link and weld a sleeve over it, bam pinion angle fixed and it will fit right in on the mountain!
 
rear frame section looks good. Id leave the shackle hanger tacked on until the very end to finalize the angle, then weld it in. No need to keep redoing it. Its deceiving with the black fender flare paint, but it looks like the entire truck could come down 3-4inches. Looks tall. Ive never been a fan of any of the trail gear link systems but that would be a lot of work to redo. Might be easier to move the upper coilover mount up some to lower it but that could open up a can of worms trying to get the TG shit to play nice.
 
Those are worn out 33s on it now so it makes it look even taller than it is, but yeah it’s a pretty tall truck. Unfortunately making it sit at a reasonable height is going to mean hacking the frame off at the firewall and starting over. The links are pretty short for the truck and even with all this height, uptravel is pretty limited since the axle is basically at the same place as the factory axle. This TG kit is junk, would not recommend ...but the truck was really cheap for all the stuff that's on it.

I'm gonna do the "don't get it right, get it running" thing and figure out how to make the front be better later on. That'll probably involve super duty axles, and I'm not sure I want to put all that effort into a rusty 4 cylinder truck. I just wanna go get this thing dirty for the time being.
 
You can't just pick an angle for any leaf. 45* works with chebbys but likely won't work with brand new aftermarket leafs.

Honestly the 1st try looked the best.

Use the formula if you want them to be right. Then test with all but 1 or 2 leafs removed.
 
Slander said:
So you are now in for Harlan based off that last line?
Click to expand...
Not a chance. I'll be lucky to have brakes on it by then. It only runs on 3.5 cylinders right now, still need to find a set of 37s, coilovers, put the interior back together, change all the fluids, fix the leaking rear hub, etc. etc. etc.

YotaAtieToo said:
You can't just pick an angle for any leaf. 45* works with chebbys but likely won't work with brand new aftermarket leafs.

Honestly the 1st try looked the best.

Use the formula if you want them to be right. Then test with all but 1 or 2 leafs removed.
Click to expand...

What formula?
 
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thezentree said:
Not a chance. I'll be lucky to have brakes on it by then. It only runs on 3.5 cylinders right now, still need to find a set of 37s, coilovers, put the interior back together, change all the fluids, fix the leaking rear hub, etc. etc. etc.



What formula?
Click to expand...

Been posted a bunch

Length of main leaf along the arch, eye to eye, minus shackle length plus ~1" that gives you spring hanger to shackle hanger distance.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Been posted a bunch

Length of main leaf along the arch, eye to eye, minus shackle length plus ~1" that gives you spring hanger to shackle hanger distance.
Click to expand...
Yeah I failed to search before I responded and then had to go cook dinner before I could edit my post, but thanks. I'll go measure later this morning
 
rattlewagon said:
Your first placement looked pretty close to me. Are those factory springs? Why wouldn't you go with factory specs? It will settle more too with actual weight on the bed and once the springs break in a little. depends on what the rest of the plans for this build are.
Click to expand...
You fuckin nailed it based on the formula YotaAtieToo posted. I mean within 1/8".

Which should come as a huge surprise to everyone since that's the factory shackle hanger location :emb:
YotaAtieToo said:
Been posted a bunch

Length of main leaf along the arch, eye to eye, minus shackle length plus ~1" that gives you spring hanger to shackle hanger distance.
Click to expand...
 
No big updates, been too busy with work and life, but I got the forward and mid bed mounts done, and the bed actually bolted on. The next big thing is to get the upper and lower shock mounts done, but in my mind I need to get the ride height figured out before I can place the shock mounts (right?). I ordered a new set of the same 12" 5100s that were on it and am planning to use those.

With no fuel tank, the bed, and a few hundred pounds in the bed behind the rear axle, the rear of the truck sits about 2" lower than the front, measured center of the hub to the fender flare. This isn't unexpected since the front spring eye is about 2" higher than it was with the factory frame. I ordered an ORD zero rate kit that should be here just in time for me to go to the beach for a week.

Thoughts on the zero rate kit? I'm assuming it'll cause some axle wrap, but it was $50 and it's certainly less sketchy than a lift block lol. I just wanna drive this thing.

Oh, and coilovers - I'm considering Fox 2.0 remote resis from Accutune. Any other places I should be looking? Are 2.0s dumb for this? I still need to measure but the previous owner says the blown out Walker Evans shocks are 14".
 
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I'm not at all opposed to using 12" shocks if they make more sense, just need to find time to measure. I'd really like to get the front lower, even if it's just an inch. Might drive it squatted until I get time to figure out the front end haha.
 
Agree, it looks pretty tall in the front. I would Unfuck the link geometry on the front end and get the right length shock, that way you just get it fixed right the first time.
 
agree on 12".... Biggest biggest regret on mine is jumping from 12" to 14" when doing the 4WU kit... 12" are much easier to package (especially around steering shaft and booster/MC... and axles aren't wide enough to take advantage of 14"...

If you really want 14's... I'll sell you some Radflo's and I'll go to 12". :flipoff2:
 
Frame height on bald 33" BFGs is like 24" lol.

Slander said:
Agree, it looks pretty tall in the front. I would Unfuck the link geometry on the front end and get the right length shock, that way you just get it fixed right the first time.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure. At least a partial unfucking so the pinion isn't pointing at the sky. I think I can probably squeeze some bumps in if I push the axle side track bar mount forward a little bit too, which will make me feel a lot better about making it sit lower.

I'm not keen on doing it totally right for now, because that means cutting the frame off at the firewall and all new links and link mounts, and realistically that's at least another year on jackstands with how much time I have to work on this thing.
 
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