What to do with old plasma table

[patooyee]

I have a very old, inferior Torchmate TM1 diy table. It's never been state off the art but has enabled me to design and build things in the past that I couldn't otherwise do. I built the table way back before I knew what I was doing. It's always bound up in places. It's not super rigid. It doesn't have a z axis, which was always it's biggest short fall. It uses rack and pinion gears on each side which are always impossible to keep in sync. The software only runs on win XP. I don't have an XP machine anymore. I can't afford a new table but I also can't imagine life without one. At a minimum, to get this table running again, I would have to invest in a new control box and software.

What should I do? The table is in my way if it's not running. Cut the table up for scrap and accept hand cutting and the limitations it brings in the future? Or spend tons of time and money trying to polish this turd?

 

[SomeGuy]

Or sell the table as is and get a new one...I'm sure someone would take it as a project base, just disclose what's wrong but you'll get more than scrap for it.

 

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

every one of your complaints can be fixed
.....just fix them

 

[bgaidan]

What's the current control and software? My "XP only" mach 3 router was moved to a cheap Win11 NUC with a $100 motion controller. My XP only vinyl cutter does indeed run off XP, but I run it off a virtual machine on my main desktop. There are usually ways around that.


The other stuff can fix fixed or modernized. Post some pics.

 

[RustyC]

Use the base with new lead screws and motors add Z axis and update the controller?

 

[Eric642]

It uses rack and pinion gears on each side which are always impossible to keep in sync.

My table (Not Torcmate) has a rack and pinons for Y axis and I have no issues keeping them in sync. Maybe a pinion is loose?
An old computer to run XP should be pretty cheap.

 

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

I have a TM table, and I have ran the piss out of it

I have a very old, inferior Torchmate TM1 diy table. It's never been state off the art but has enabled me to design and build things in the past that I couldn't otherwise do. I built the table way back before I knew what I was doing. It's always bound up in places.Fix, it, you are a better fab guy now, cut the weld if you have to

It's not super rigid. Triangles, easy and cheap

It doesn't have a z axis I see them come up for sale used on the interents, or make a lifter station, all the info is out there, I have found that I actually get a better cut NOT using the voltage control, just lift between cuts

which was always it's biggest short fall. It uses rack and pinion gears on each side which are always impossible to keep in sync. something is slipping, its is a wrench, that is it

The software only runs on win XP. I don't have an XP machine anymore Used, buy one for pennys and leave it all in the shop like I do. That lap top doesn't do anything but run my table

. I can't afford a new table but I also can't imagine life without one. At a minimum, to get this table running again, I would have to invest in a new control box and software.

What should I do? The table is in my way if it's not running. Cut the table up for scrap and accept hand cutting and the limitations it brings in the future? Or spend tons of time and money trying to polish this turd?

also, somehow if you google just right, you can find the posted answers from the TM section at the old site. I have no idea how that works beings it doesn't exist anymore, lots of info out there

 

[Dethmachinefab]

I should have a tm z axis around I'll let go for real cheap. No controller with it though because they are all long dead.

Fix it up. Sounds like it's just in need of a good squaring up and adjustment, and thats why it's missing steps aka out of sync.

 

[CarterKraft]

A few mesa cards, belts and bearings and you could have it running like a top on LinuxCNC with torch height control etc.

The 16mm SBR linear rails are dirt cheap now too, you could really modernize it with very little money, 10mm SBR rails bearings etc are like $32 for a z axis

My logic was I want to invest in a control system I can scale up to full production if needed so I only have to learn one system and it will be forward scskeabke for any CNC machine I would want to make.

First plasma table build

I bought some skate bearing trucks off eBay while on vacation... My plan was to build a low budget 2'x2' using LinuxCNC and develop the knowledge of Linux, G code, CAM etc. I got going and bought a Mesa 7i96s and THCAD-10 but I had hell with the laptop and Linux trying to get all that...

irate4x4.com

 

[subybaja]

can't afford a new table but I also can't imagine life without one.

If only all of life's questions were so easily answered!

 

[patooyee]

I'm going to the shop later today to get some good pics of the abortion. But in the meantime, I'll state what my requirements would be to bother messing with it at all:

• Must run on modern computers / Windows 11.
• Must run from a USB cable, not serial port.
• Must be as open source as possible.
• Must upgrade my motors.
• Must have THC.
• Would very much like to get away from the rack and pinion drive as well as belt reduction. I don't know what my options here are though.
• Budget is a constraint.

One option I should mention that I have is 3d Printing capability. I've seen some pretty cool DIY CNC projects with 3d-printed components.

 

[patooyee]

Overall view of the abortion.

Here's my current control box. I believe it is the very first control box that TM ever made. One axis is shorted / burnt out, so I could only ever control 2 axis with it. The software that controls it only runs on Win XP and it connects via archaic serial port that is hard to find on modern computers. This needs to be replaced with something more modern. I'm not touching a tool to this table unless that happens.

The rack and pinion on both sides was nearly impossible to keep aligned for a long period of time. I had to install swivel joints into the connecting shaft because ANY amount of misalignment in the shaft would bind the gears. There is only a motor on one side which caused constant torque-flex between the two sides.

All the bearings ride on just plan steel. ANY amount of dust, corrosion, or imperfection bound up the weak-ass motors.

I think this the crank on the top of this THC mount can be replaced with a motor to give me THC, but I didn't have a good axis controller, nor sensor input on the control box, so there was never any point in looking into it.

The belts really weren't that problematic, but I've never seen any more modern machines that used them so that's the main reason I want them gone. I could be convinced to keep them though.

That's it. No idea where to go from here.

 

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

Overall view of the abortion.



Here's my current control box. I believe it is the very first control box that TM ever made. One axis is shorted / burnt out,

Get a replacement online for 100.00

so I could only ever control 2 axis with it. The software that controls it only runs on Win XP and it connects via archaic serial port that is hard to find on modern computers. This needs to be replaced with something more modern. I'm not touching a tool to this table unless that happens.

Why? get a laptop and run it

The rack and pinion on both sides was nearly impossible to keep aligned for a long period of time. I had to install swivel joints into the connecting shaft because ANY amount of misalignment in the shaft would bind the gears. There is only a motor on one side which caused constant torque-flex between the two sides.

Fix it, you welded it crooked

All the bearings ride on just plan steel. ANY amount of dust, corrosion, or imperfection bound up the weak-ass motors.

you are out of alignment, I have them and they run fine

I think this the crank on the top of this THC mount can be replaced with a motor to give me THC,

Yes

but I didn't have a good axis controller, nor sensor input on the control box, so there was never any point in looking into it.



The belts really weren't that problematic, but I've never seen any more modern machines that used them so that's the main reason I want them gone. I could be convinced to keep them though.

I have 10 years on my belts, and they are still going

That's it. No idea where to go from here.

Sell it, you want a new high dollar machine out of a kit that you knew what you were getting when you ordered it in the first place
Order a fresh one and be happy

other note
parts are about 50% when you get Lincoln/Torchmate out of the picture, (if not more)
and TM has a phone number that you can call and a tech will help you out

also
TM is not that little company that was once was over at Pirate, they want your money and you will be happy about it

 

[patooyee]

Get a replacement online for 100.00

Why? get a laptop and run it

Fix it, you welded it crooked

you are out of alignment, I have them and they run fine

Yes

I have 10 years on my belts, and they are still going

Sell it, you want a new high dollar machine out of a kit that you knew what you were getting when you ordered it in the first place
Order a fresh one and be happy

other note
parts are about 50% when you get Lincoln/Torchmate out of the picture, (if not more)
and TM has a phone number that you can call and a tech will help you out

also
TM is not that little company that was once was over at Pirate, they want your money and you will be happy about it

I'm not dealing with antique computers and Win XP anymore. It was always a massive PITA. I'd rather hand-file my parts out of plate. I want to be able to run Solidworks and the table on the same computer and not deal with antique serial ports.

Do you have links to these $100 replacement boxes? When my one axis board went out, I looked everywhere for one and could not find it. I looked for entire boxes as well.

"parts are about 50% when you get Lincoln/Torchmate out of the picture, (if not more)
and TM has a phone number that you can call and a tech will help you out "

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about prices here. But my experience with TM support was rarely positive.

All your other advice may be spot on and is the input I'm looking for, thank you. I'm also interesting in looking into other possible options before I pull any triggers though.

 

[bgaidan]

Easy route, but probably $$:

Torchmate® Problems? Upgrade with Flashcut Software CNC

Are you facing Torchmate® problems? Upgrade your table to be faster, higher resolution and more intuitive than ever with FlashCut technology.

www.flashcutcnc.com

Less easy, but still easy and cheapish route -
Mach4 plus something like a Gecko540 servos and a UC100 motion controller. The 540 is 4 axis so you can add a slave servo for the other side of your y and get rid of the shaft.

That's how my router is setup....which is otherwise very similar to your table as far as how things move.

Beyond that, sounds like you need to take some measurements on your table and see where it's off and do a little cutting and welding to square it up.

 

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

I'm not dealing with antique computers and Win XP anymore. It was always a massive PITA. I'd rather hand-file my parts out of plate. I want to be able to run Solidworks and the table on the same computer and not deal with antique serial ports.

, point taken
not a big deal at my house, but I see where you put the importance

Do you have links to these $100 replacement boxes? When my one axis board went out, I looked everywhere for one and could not find it. I looked for entire boxes as well.

I was referring to the card
my box is actually a rebranded Flashcut(?) I have gotten my parts from them for a deal, and have worked fine
I do have a different box than you, but knowing how the system works it is probably the same for you

I have seen speak that they had a deal with TM that they would not sell replacement parts to TM customer fixes, they would refer you back to TM and they (TM) would hand you the dame parts at a higher cost
....choose your words wisely if asking for assistance

"parts are about 50% when you get Lincoln/Torchmate out of the picture, (if not more)
and TM has a phone number that you can call and a tech will help you out "

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about prices here. But my experience with TM support was rarely positive.

....after the TM buy out? because my experience is this tooi

All your other advice may be spot on and is the input I'm looking for, thank you. I'm also interesting in looking into other possible options before I pull any triggers though.

adding
most of your wear parts can be found within the McMaster web site

 

[CarterKraft]

You are set up to go several ways and have a awesome table.

Id keep the rack pinion and belt reductions and add another Y motor/reduction.

It's likely those old drives were cramping your style, a modern 36v+ stepper drive should have plenty of power with those reductions and racks.

I guess settle on a controller then we can help you with the hardware.

If you have to stay on Windows that will narrow your options, I can't blame you for wanting too.

 

[patooyee]

You are set up to go several ways and have a awesome table.

Id keep the rack pinion and belt reductions and add another Y motor/reduction.

It's likely those old drives were cramping your style, a modern 36v+ stepper drive should have plenty of power with those reductions and racks.

I guess settle on a controller then we can help you with the hardware.

If you have to stay on Windows that will narrow your options, I can't blame you for wanting too.

That sounds both logical and economical, I like it. Are you saying to change the motors as well?

Where / how can I research my controller options?

 

[CarterKraft]

I doubt I'd change motors unless they are really inadequate.

I think we can list them and then discuss pros/cons

Mach 3 (not USB I think)
Mach 4 (USB I think $200)

LinuxCNC (not windows but free, requires mesa cards to use Ethernet (no USB)

Flashcut (not sure, prices are to be "quoted")

MyPlasm ($700, locks you into some proprietary controller)

Acorn (pricey, not sure on USB)

 

[patooyee]

I doubt I'd change motors unless they are really inadequate.

I think we can list them and then discuss pros/cons

Mach 3 (not USB I think)
Mach 4 (USB I think $200)

LinuxCNC (not windows but free, requires mesa cards to use Ethernet (no USB)

Flashcut (not sure, prices are to be "quoted")

MyPlasm ($700, locks you into some proprietary controller)

Acorn (pricey, not sure on USB)

The Mach systems ... They turn a PC into your controller? How do the motors, torch control, THC, etc all get wired in to the PC though? I imagine there SOME sort of hardware that accomplishes that interface?

The rest of those are actual hardware controllers, if I'm not mistaken?

I've played with Linux a little in the past. I'd rather stick with windows. I'll be needing to learn a lot about this stuff as it is. I don't need to add a new OS on top of that ... Especially one that requires a lot of diy / open source knowledge.

 

[patooyee]

Best CNC Controllers [2023] for Mills, Lathes, and Plasma

Take a look at the best CNC controllers of 2021!

mellowpine.com

 

[Rnuovrcj5]

I'm going to the shop later today to get some good pics of the abortion. But in the meantime, I'll state what my requirements would be to bother messing with it at all:

• Must run on modern computers / Windows 11.
• Must run from a USB cable, not serial port.
• Must be as open source as possible.
• Must upgrade my motors.
• Must have THC.
• Would very much like to get away from the rack and pinion drive as well as belt reduction. I don't know what my options here are though.
• Budget is a constraint.

One option I should mention that I have is 3d Printing capability. I've seen some pretty cool DIY CNC projects with 3d-printed components.

I didn’t dig deep to see if this checks all your boxes, but I’ve got one of the Blackbox controllers setup on a 4x8’ router. That site is pretty good for parts/knowledge too.

 

[patooyee]

I didn’t dig deep to see if this checks all your boxes, but I’ve got one of the Blackbox controllers setup on a 4x8’ router. That site is pretty good for parts/knowledge too.

I was looking at that. The box itself is the only hardware needed between the table and your computer, correct? No breakout boards, etc?

What CAM software do you use?

 

[aczlan]

I was looking at that. The box itself is the only hardware needed between the table and your computer, correct? No breakout boards, etc?

What CAM software do you use?

Looking at: BlackBox Motion Control System
It appears to go from USB to the stepper motors (up to 4 motors for the box at that link), so no breakout boards needed.

Aaron Z

 

[patooyee]

Question: What are the advantages / disadvantages to using screws instead of rack and pinions?

 

[Rnuovrcj5]

I was looking at that. The box itself is the only hardware needed between the table and your computer, correct? No breakout boards, etc?

What CAM software do you use?

Yup, just the box. It came with all the wiring and plugs to get it connected to the steppers if I remember right. I did buy that controller they have on there at some point but it’s not needed. I’ve got an x-box style controller hooked to the computer to “fly” the gantry around as it’s way easier to do than having my laptop right next to it. It’s some sort of Amazon gaming setup that you can program to “hit keys” that work for the movement shortcuts.

I’m using a paid copy of Fusion 360 for CAD and CAM with it. Outputting G-code to the Openbuilds control software.

 

[bgaidan]

I doubt I'd change motors unless they are really inadequate.

I think we can list them and then discuss pros/cons

Mach 3 (not USB I think)
Mach 4 (USB I think $200)

You can use Mach 3 with a $100 usb motion controller. I use the UC100 with mine and it works perfectly. Biggest thing is to only buy from the manufacturer or a known authorized reseller. There are tons of fakes floating around on ebay and amazon and most won't work properly.
I'm running it on an older Intel Nuc that I got for free.

CNCdrive - motion controls

CNC drives, control systems

cncdrive.com

LinuxCNC (not windows but free, requires mesa cards to use Ethernet (no USB)

As much as I love my mill on LinuxCNC, I hate working the wiring and back end and cringe at thinking about setting something up from scratch. I'd be hesitant to recommend it to someone that's not really tech savy and in to linux.

 

[CarterKraft]

Question: What are the advantages / disadvantages to using screws instead of rack and pinions

Screws used to be frowned on cause at high speeds they whip.

The langmuir tables run fine on srews but they are short and the bigger table has rotating ball nuts which greatly complicates the manufacturing.

 

[CarterKraft]

You can use Mach 3 with a $100 usb motion controller. I use the UC100 with mine and it works perfectly. Biggest thing is to only buy from the manufacturer or a known authorized reseller. There are tons of fakes floating around on ebay and amazon and most won't work properly.
I'm running it on an older Intel Nuc that I got for free.

CNCdrive - motion controls

CNC drives, control systems

cncdrive.com

As much as I love my mill on LinuxCNC, I hate working the wiring and back end and cringe at thinking about setting something up from scratch. I'd be hesitant to recommend it to someone that's not really tech savy and in to linux.

It appears to me the wiring for a plasma anyway is pretty straight forward, as in I can't see it being any different for any other system?

Now the Linux part is really challenging for Windows people I do agree and that caused me all my frustrations with it vs the GUI of mach I'm Windows for example.

 

[CarterKraft]

I was looking at that. The box itself is the only hardware needed between the table and your computer, correct? No breakout boards, etc?

What CAM software do you use?

If you have a cad program that doesn't do cam I am using Sheetcam, its $120 for a license I think but is "lifetime" not a subscription.
It does plasma well and has some milling ability if you get down that road.